Camera Orbital Incompatible with Roll Up for Vertical Orbits¶
Target Tracking Ongoing All rigs BOTH
Summary¶
Camera Orbital tracking mode and Roll Up roll mode cannot be used together for vertical orbits (moves that go over the top of a subject or through tilt 90°). When combined, the camera attitude either flips incorrectly or the move cannot be built in a way that produces a clean circular path with a stable horizon. Newer versions of Flair removed the UI warning about this combination, but the underlying incompatibility remains. The supported workaround is to use Target Tracking On with many intermediate waypoints and Roll Up — which gives a controllable approximation of an orbital path.
Symptoms¶
- Camera Orbital + Roll Up: camera flips or tumbles unexpectedly at the top of the move
- Camera Orbital + Roll Orbital: the "Roll Orbital" option describes azimuth/elevation-based up-vector, which is advanced and not equivalent to Roll Up
- Newer Flair versions may not warn about the incompatibility, leading operators to attempt the combo without knowing it is unsupported
- The 360° turntable orbit using Camera Orbital works well horizontally but breaks for moves that include significant elevation change through vertical
Root Cause¶
Camera Orbital mode computes the camera path based on a fixed azimuth and elevation around a target. Roll Up mode requires a separate up-vector target to define which way is "up" for the camera at every point. In Camera Orbital, the rig handles orientation internally — there is no mechanism to pass Roll Up's up-vector data through the orbital calculation. The two systems use incompatible methods for computing camera orientation.
"CGI moves are mostly exported in frame by frame 1, 2, or 3 camera mode being converted from whatever TT Roll mode you are in. Orbital can be exported for MRMC import, but Roll Orbital is not supported." — Simon Wakley (2024-08-27)
"Camera Orbital is not compatible with Roll Up for vertical orbits. This is a long-standing limitation; Flair removed the warning in newer versions, but the issue persists." — Community consensus
Resolution¶
Workaround — Target Tracking On with Roll Up + intermediate waypoints¶
Use Target Tracking: On (not Camera Orbital) with Roll Up roll mode, and add many intermediate waypoints to trace the circular path:
- Open Setups -> Target Tracking Setup or the job's Job Type / Target Tracking controls, then set Target Tracking to On and Roll Mode to Roll Up.
- Position the rig at the first point of the orbit. Store waypoint.
- Move the rig in Carts view (Camera Elevation + Azimuth, or manually) through the orbit arc. Store a waypoint every 15–30° of arc.
- For a full 360°, use at least 5 waypoints (more gives smoother path).
- At each waypoint, also set the Roll Up target (up-vector) to keep the horizon level.
Cannot use Move Effects Drop Waypoints with Roll Up
The Drop Waypoints function in Move Effects does not reliably insert Roll Up targets. Store each waypoint manually.
For 360° orbits specifically¶
See 360 Degree Orbit in Roll Up Mode for the complete step-by-step procedure for building a smooth 360° orbit in Roll Up mode.
For export to Maya / FBX¶
For Roll Up moves (which require a 3-node FBX):
- Export as FBX 3-node (not FBX 2-node or Camera Orbital FBX)
- Choose Maya Y-up coordinate system
- See CGI fbx node types guide for node type details
WhatsApp Excerpts¶
"Some days I have found that Orbital and Roll Up together causes the camera to flip in different ways in Maya. Roll Orbital is not supported, but if you did a frame by frame it would be the same — effectively." — Heiko Matting / Simon Wakley (2024-08-27)
"Orbital can be exported for MRMC import, but Roll Orbital is not supported. MRMC Carts Up, Eulers + up — these do not work for Roll Orbital." — Heiko Matting (2024-08-27)
"With FBX 3-node export, a Roll Orbital move is working smooth and nicely in Maya." — Heiko Matting (confirmed with 3-node workaround)
Related Issues¶
- See also: 360 Degree Orbit in Roll Up Mode — full procedure for programming a 360° orbit in Roll Up.
- See also: Roll Orbital — 'Flip Both' Setting Required for Over-the-Top Moves — Roll Orbital Handling: Flip Both setting for over-the-top moves
- See also: FBX Export — 1-Node vs 2-Node vs 3-Node Explained — FBX node types and roll mode requirements
- See also: FBX Export — \"Invalid Job\" Error (Roll Mode Mismatch) — Roll mode mismatch causing Invalid Job error
Related Tutorials¶
▶ 00:03 — FBX import workflow overview; shows correct node type selection during export
▶ 00:00 — Roll Up mode programming for moves that go through tilt 90° / over the top of subject
Revision History¶
| Date | Change | Editor |
|---|---|---|
| 2026-05-24 | Initial extraction | Tom D / Claude Code |